TARDIS standard discussion

[roguesunset]

Moving this over to the forums. So, we have discussed the moving the TARDIS, Moment dress (based on the box, not Bad Wolf Rose), and K9 costume to Interpretive Costume category. I still believe we do need a "standard" for the TARDIS. Otherwise, what is the point of endorsing? The basic features vary very little throughout the series and I think a standard for endorsement is important to lend legitimacy to these costumes alongside the others that are endorsed.

It can be basic as we were talking about:

STANDARD:

A color of the TARDIS shown in Doctor Who
The words "Police Box" and/or "Public Call" (white text on black background or vice versa)
Black or white windows.
Must not be "off-the-rack" garment purchased with no modifications.
Must be clearly identifiable as a TARDIS costume from 10 ft away, outside of the context of a Doctor Who convention. 

OPTIONAL:

St John's Ambulance logo
"Pull to Open" sign
Handle
Hidden phone
Door panels
Interior design (such as an underskirt or inside jacket lining)
Lamp

[heartofthetardis]

A note, the Police public call box sign color varies. We're most familiar with it being white lettering on black but it has also been white lettering on Tardis blue.
Windows outlines have been black, white, and Tardis blue
The windows themselves change as well, between dark Gray all the way through to white

Also I feel that the door sign (which also has varied) should be represented in some form because just as the police public call box sign has always been there in some form so has the door sign.

Also acceptable would be gray-scale Tardii (tardises?) representing the black and white era of the show.

Other than that I agree with the optional. Though I would say those who are creating a specific tardis from a specific episode would want to give serious consideration to either purposely excluding or including the St John's Ambulance logo though for general Tardis representation it would definitely be optional. Example: Someone specifically creating an 11 Tardis would want to give it extra consideration since it was the Tardis that brought that sign back.

I would also consider having the tardis lamp (functional or non functional) represented in some way as part of the required standard. It does't have to be literal but personally I would like to see it included in some sort of representation appropriate to the style of the costume.

To sum up my thoughts things that don't change = important
Things that vary from tardis to tardis or are very difficult to incorporate (panel shading for example) = less important

Also I would say it must be distinguishable as a Tardis cosplay verses a Tardis inspired regular article of clothing like the Blue Wedding dress that is getting passed around as a Tardis wedding dress.

[heartofthetardis]

On a note, In doing a search for tardis cosplays I'm estimating about 75%-80% incorporate the door sign (even the various premade dresses have it on there)
It's looking like about 50%-60% have a representation of the top light.

So I would say for a costume standard the door sign is completely a reasonable expectation. (I even saw one lady incorporate it as a purse because her costume was rather skimpy)
The top light is a toss up for optional vs standard and I would think a vote would be reasonable for whether or not that is optional or not.

[roguesunset]

Personally I don't think the sign is necessary unless there are door panels specifically shown as well. (Such as on a long dress)

One reason I deliberately didn't put it on mine is that the innuendo of "pull to open" really isn't something I want clearly written on a zip-up front corset. To me, it wasn't a critical part for the costume to represent the TARDIS given the other elements I did include.

However, if in a vote that is determined to be a necessary feature, I will withdraw my endorsement request. I won't be adding that particular detail to my costume for the above mentioned reason.

Top light I think is a common thing to have (and I do have it for mine- I just don't always wear it hence not putting it on the endorsement). Again, I don't know that I think it is a requirement but I would put that to a vote.

I agree with you about greyscale TARDIS. I thought that was covered by "a color of the TARDIS shown in Doctor Who" since the early episodes were black and white so a monochrome TARDIS would count because of that. It could be spelled out explicitly if you think that is needed?

I did not catch the color variants on the police box wording and background. My purpose in specifying the colors was to, again, match the show colors. So maybe we could specify the variations? Same with windows- maybe saying monochrome windows?

I very much agree about it needing to be a costume- that's what I was meaning about the 10ft and not in Whovian context. Like if A person stood in a mall in this costume, from 10 ft away would you identify it as a TARDIS Cosplay? I agree about the wedding dress. Cool dress but not a TARDIS.

[roguesunset]

Another thought I had this morning was placement of the different detail elements. For example, the text POLICE BOX and/or PUBLIC CALL should always be above the windows, yes? I mean, we can do "inspired" versions where elements are out of place but what makes a TARDIS cosplay identifiable is having those details in the correct place in relation to each other. Equally, if we require the Pull to Open sign, this should be below the windows elements, and the top light, should be above the text.

I still disagree with "all elements that don't ever change" being absolutely required. Because then we would have to require a handle and the door panels. We would also have to include "public call" as a requirement in the text, not just either/or with the "police box" text.

[BankOfMom]

Lissa, I agree with you that "pull to open" needs to be optional for the exact reason you state.

[coleenriver]

I agree with the no "pull to open". don't need that.

I also feel that the light should be an option. If you are recreating the tardis in a formal style, a light on your head is the last thing you want.

[heartofthetardis]

I disagree with dictating placement. I've seen tardis dresses not perfectly placed and yet it still works as a clearly identifiable Tardis. Once you start saying where things need to go you're no longer a base inclusive standard now you're dictating the flow of the costume and for something that is in the interpretive category I think that's far too restrictive and takes away some of the creativity of the category. If you want to suggest an order it can be a suggestion but should by no means be a part requirements for endorsement.

I dunno at this point I'm leaning away from having a standard and saying we all know what a tardis looks like. Decide if it's a good representation of it when voting.

[heartofthetardis]

I'm thinking if there is going to be a standard keep it simple and leave the rest up to the good judgement of the members.

Must clearly represent a form of the Tardis as seen on the show
Must reasonably incorporate key distinctive elements of the Tardis that make it distinguishable as a Tardis as opposed to a blue outfit
Color variants should harmonize
Special consideration to including occasional elements should be given when creating a specific Tardis (ie 11 brought back the St. John's Sign)
Monochrome cosplays representing what is seen on screen are equally valid as a Tardis cosplay
Not an off the rack (ie. her universe, random blue outfit) dress/suit/etc without obvious modifications
Modifications do not have to be made by the wearer (that way people don't think we require sewing skills that may be beyond them)

Just leave it at that. You have good guidelines for someone to get started. You're not stifling creativity and a list of key elements that can be incorporated can be in the standard for people to choose from what they want. Then when people are voting they can decide is this a good representation of the tardis and was it done in a way that shows creativity and isn't just a blue dress someone wrote bad wolf on as an example.

[The Valeyard]

I think that a very basic standard would be helpful. It has been asked for repeatedly. However, I would tend to agree with the majority here: the pull to open sign should be optional. Here are a few reasons as to why:

* It is an invitation to drunks and miscreants. We are working hard to change the culture of costuming, but we aren't there yet. There are too many people who would either grasp some sort of innuendo or physically grasp the costumer.

* It is not as iconic as the Police Box sign. It isn't even repeated in readable text in all BBC merch

* Finally, personal experience. I have had that sign on the back of my TARDIS blue Mini Cooper for just under a year. People repeatedly pull on it or ask me if I'm not worried that people will try.

I also have a friend who has a TARDIS suit. One of his big complaints is that "booth babes" repeatedly pull on that side of his suit. The first time it was cute, the fifteenth time it felt like he was being given pawed and his costume was being damaged.

Finally, unsupervised children will pull on - anything -. I've seen pre teens pull eyes off of R2D2 and young kids rip buttons off of TIE Pilots and Darth Vader. If it looks like something they can play with, and they can read it (or someone else reads it to them) they will.

My suggestion would be to include it on list of options, much like I did with the Femme 6 standard. "Finally order to be endorsed, a TARDIS inspired garment must have at least two of the five elements listed here to qualify." followed by a list of five elements, any two of which work well enough on their own for that extra bit of chrome.

[heartofthetardis]

I guess I'm too scary for people to come up to and try to pull on me. I don't generally have a problem with harassing idiots.

I like the X out of X elements idea. Maybe have two lists one with however many important elements and then a list of completely optional elements that don't really define the tardis as a tardis like the door handle.

[BenaeQuee]

I'm liking what was proposed in the start of the thread, mostly.

STANDARD:

A color of the TARDIS shown in Doctor Who
The words "Police Box" and/or "Public Call" (white text on black background or vice versa)
Black or white windows.
Must not be "off-the-rack" garment purchased with no modifications.
Must be clearly identifiable as a TARDIS costume from 10 ft away, outside of the context of a Doctor Who convention.

OPTIONAL:

St John's Ambulance logo
"Pull to Open" sign
Handle
Hidden phone
Door panels
Interior design (such as an underskirt or inside jacket lining)
Lamp

My dress is inspired by a 1950's swing dress and I wanted it to be fashion and not just a costume.  I have the color in the dress, the words are a beauty pageant style sash, the windows are my corset with trim to mimic the panes, I made the whole thing, and it's obviously a TARDIS.  I have a feather and rhinestone fascinator that acts as my "lamp".  I didn't want the door panels or sign as they just didn't fit in with my design. 

I do also have a casual "hipster" TARDIS that I wear in the summer and it is always recognized, but still so casual to the people who don't know DW or anything about it.  I modified a loose blouse to have window panes and wear my TARDIS hat from my femme ten.  I had a photographer stop me in NYC during fashion week for photos because he loved the overall look and geek chic appeal (he was a DW fan).  I have yet to find that photo online lol

When I do original creations that are inspired by existing creations, I like my things to be fashion with a costume twist.  I can take the sash off my costume, and it really still screams TARDIS to a fan, while still being a great vintage style dress to the casual eye.  The sash totally makes it though and is my favorite part next to the fascinator.

[roguesunset]

What a fabulous design! I adore your 50s vintage dress one. That's my personal favorite style and you really pulled that off wonderfully!

[BenaeQuee]

Thanks! I love that era for dresses, I have a few summer dresses in that style and I can't wait for the weather to warm up so I can wear them again